Sunday, July 15, 2007
Yesterday in shul there was a kiddush. Whenever this happens I'm happy: A) It means I don't have to prepare shabbos lunch and B) I get to see the other ladies in shul and socialize.
So I trekked to shul towards the end of daavening, and settled into a corner. After 10 minutes or so a certain lady - let's call her Tova - comes to me and says; "I want to talk to you about your daughters. They talk during krias haTorah and you should keep them home." She paused and looked disapprovingly at the other kids. "Believe me, I have a lot of mothers to call tonight."
She's right. It's not appropriate for kids to be noisy in shul. The mothers generally ignore their prattle, as long as they don't get out of hand.
Anyway, I know Tova and her schtick, so I just said, "Thanks for telling me." The kiddush got underway and Rav Plony started talking. Tova was flashing her eyes at the chirping kids, even lecturing one as he wriggled by her. Zalman was in my arms, making loud baby noises now again. During a break, I noticed Tova lecturing my husband over the mechitza that it's wrong that we bring our children to shul. At that moment I got angry, and I didn't like how I felt. I decided I would say something nice to her, to diffuse my negativity.
"I really like your shirt, Tova," I said, sincerely meaning it (even though I still felt annoyed). "Oh thanks," she smiled. Then Rav Plony started talking again, and she stood up to listen. He was talking more quietly than ususal, and Zalman started to get a little louder. I was just realizing it was time to take him out, but not before Tova hissed,
"When I had young children I never took them to shul! I either stayed home or sat outside! This is not fair!" Her sudden vitriol took me by surprise, and I felt tears coming on. "This isn't daavening," I pointed out, "This is farbrengen. Farbrengen is about ahavas yisroel (loving your fellow Jew). I don't mind what you said to me, Tova, but you could have said it in a kinder, more sisterly, more chassidishe way." (Another aspect of farbrengen - chassidim help each other improve their character). With that, I left.
I stood outside in the sun, angry and sad. I hated feeling that way towards her. I closed my eyes and prayed aloud, "Please G-d let me have ahavas yisroel. Please G-d let me have ahavas yisroel," over and over again. I cried as I asked G-d for His help.
Readers, how should I resolve this? Should I call her? Wait for her to call me? Let it go?
Love, Maven @ 
13 Comments:
At 1:13 PM,
Ayelet Survivor said…
It really sounds like she's got something else -- WAY else -- going on. I would leave it for now and try to stay out of her way. It was a nice gesture to compliment her blouse, but in her state of mind I wouldn't be surprised if she took offense at that as well.
At 6:12 PM,
Dinosaur Mom said…
I think you handled it well. I would make myself wait to seek her out until I felt calm inside myself about it. That kind of thing would totally make me cry too.
At 6:14 PM,
Dinosaur Mom said…
Also, like Ayelet says, she clearly has issues that have nothing to do with your kids or your parenting. You did the right thing to compliment her blouse but only because it was an effort to show the loooooooove.
At 8:20 PM,
Anonymous said…
Nu??? Maven, Don't take her so personally! she is the one with the problems of "Ahavas Y'Isroel"- could she have not offered to help out with your kids? You, my dear, need to have Ahavas Y'Isroel for yourself, too - you didn't do anything wrong! and you had every right to get out of your house and go to shul! Evryone's kids get wild(at least) now and again.
The real probelm is when you are always bringing a disruptive child to shul and not teaching the child how to behave.Letting a disruptive child do there thang at shul is obviously not the right move! But its also important to bring your kids to shul and farbrengens.
Don't bother calling her; politely let it slide, and move on!!
At 11:19 PM,
lxr23g56 said…
Hi Maven
This most likely will not mean squat coming from me but i think you handled it beautifully! You were fair and balanced. in reading your recounting of the situation i think you acted in truly, as you put it "chassidishe" fashion. i know it wasn't fun and you don't feel great about it but well done imo!
At 7:40 AM,
Anonymous said…
I have encountered a similar situation, in which my three-year-old son was making a little noise during the Torah reading, and a man peeked through the mechitza and told me that there were children's groups in a nearby shul. I felt very offended, and responded calmly and evenly that my son belonged in shul.
I disagree with sending my child to play when he is old enough to appreciate being in a shul (which i feel is quite young). However, I was sitting next to him and watching him, telling him that he needs to stay as quiet as possible so that people can hear the reading, or we would have to go outside (which would have been fine with him, he loves to play).
I think that there are two areas in which you can take productive action. First, find out from the Rabbi what the shul policy is regarding having children in the shul. My father is a pulpit Rabbi, and would often announce from the pulpit that the noise of young children was music, and the adults' noise was what had to stop.
Have the Rabbi announce the policy to the congregation (if it's pro-children), so that this woman can hear from someone in authority, that what is going on is alright with the people in charge.
Second, discuss with your children the importance of the shul's sacredness, so that they can learn that if they want to talk, they should voluntarily step outside, just as an adult should. The best way to teach them this is by example, and if you are not able to stay with them in shul, why not pair them with a "big sister", an older girl in the neighborhood with whom they can sit in shul for as long as they are able quietly, and then go out when it's too much for them? Learning the ropes in shul during childhood is an experience that can not be replaced, and is a skill that must be learned (you see many adults who haven't mastered it).
PS: Our shul in childhood did have shabbas groups during Torah reading only. When children were old enough to want to stay in shul, they did.
At 9:06 AM,
Mrs Andy said…
I'm sorry this lady was so rude to you. I agree with ayelet, she most likely had something else on her mind that made her so short and cross.
I think you handled it well. If you do call her, and I don't think you need to, make sure you have though out what you will say, perhaps even write it down, and make sure that whatever is said is said in a kind way and with a spirit of love.
However, do not beat yourself up over this situation!! Little kids are restless, but how are they to learn the importance of shul, religon etc if they don't go and participate? I know you will use this as a learning experience to talk about reverence in shul and proper behavior. If kids never go to shul (or church or whereever) they will never learn the importance of these services, and how to act in them. You are right to bring your kids along. I've found that when kids are taught reverence early on, the habit is there, and it only gets harder to teach this as they get older.
At 9:49 AM,
Maven said…
ayelet - your professional opinion is appreciated!
dino mama - you know, i felt totally validated when you said you would have felt like crying too!
anon - thanks for the tips. i think it IS important that i learn to have ahavas yisroel for myself. i'm working on it!
tikkun ger - not sure why you think your opinion "wouldn't mean squat." your opinion is valid and welcomed here! i certainly appreciate the fact that you took the time to read and comment. and thank you for the accolades.
lea - thanks for reading and commenting. i like your suggestion about getting a "big sister" to keep an eye on them. that might end up having to be a paid gig, but i suppose that's ok. as for speaking to rav (or rebbetzin) plony, that's a matter of mustering up the courage to do so. i like your father's attitude!
eden - very valid points, all. thank you to my mormon maven!
At 12:37 PM,
Stephanie said…
SLAP HER FACE...You told her good! Right on Maven!!! You got chutzpah and handled it beautifully:)
At 12:07 AM,
talmudita said…
I agree with the anonymous poster... Maven, you gotta be gentle with yourself. It sounds like you did a great job protecting your family, and yourself, as well as the values your community considers sacred. Loving yourself is key here.
At 8:34 AM,
Mrs Andy said…
You're welcome.
I have to say that my sister is a great example of how to handle kids in church. She has four, aged 8-2yrs.
She always takes some sort of quiet activity for the kids to work on during the first part of our services (we go to church for 3 hours every week!)--they also talk about what it means to be reverent in G-d's house at their house. She has a high expectation of them, but knows that this expectation has to be taught, and she and her husband teach it.
Instead of ripping on you this lady should have offered to help--juggeling 4 little ones is no short order!
I know you are a good mother, and you teach your children well--be confident in that!
At 12:18 PM,
Maven said…
eden - your sister is lucky - my kids won't sit still for anything!
At 3:16 PM,
Tamara said…
I'm late in reading this; however I probabally would have been much meaner. I mean, if talking over the mechitza is better than a noisy child...I digress. I just think I would have called her on her own shit, such as talking over a mechitza which surely, in your community, does not set an example.
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